Prototype and traffic

Cross-country expresses

These expresses had a dedicated chapter in "LNER Passenger Trains & Formations" but there wasn't enough room for everything so here is some extra info that enlarges the subject.

Glasgow-Southampton 1922-39

New addition placed here temporarily

This undated view from the mid- or late-1920s was captured a mile or so south of York and shows the Up train behind C1 No 4416 which was at Doncaster from 1924-38. The most significant aspect is that the whole train is destined for Sheffield and further south and has been enlarged considerably. It's as if the LNER was trying to promote Scarborough by providing through carriages connecting with several cities. Only faintly visible in the distance is the GWR core (alternating with LNER), normally 4 carriages carrying headboards but on this occasion, made up to 5-6 carriages. All the carriages at the head of the train look like scheduled strengtheners with, most strikingly, two ex-NER 3rd Opens which on a Saturday (when the Scarborough-Liverpool portion didn't run) would have been for the Scarborough-Leicester portion, and relatively recently built (one is on Gresley bogies).

The CWB for summer 1929 called out several through carriages that didn't run later as well as a cluster of scheduled strengtheners:

"Lav compo brake"		SX	Scarborough-Liverpool	GC Section
"Lav 3rd"		SO, MO	Scarborough-Leicester	NEA or GC Section
"Lavatory 3rd brake"		SO, MO	Scarborough-Leicester	NEA or GC Section
BCK	1st/3rd brake		Scarborough-Southampton	NEA
TK	3rd		Scarborough-Southampton	NEA
-
BTK	3rd brake	FX, SO	Newcastle-Leicester	NEA or GC Section

It's hard to be specific because the summer rosters changed quite a lot. The rosters for 1929 indicate several non-gangwayed types, as can be seen in the photograph. All the carriages from Scarborough were marshalled at York on the head of the train. The last one in this extract was from Newcastle and was placed on the rear of the train to be detached at Leicester. As was not uncommon, first class passengers were rarely provided for in strengtheners, even regular ones, and here the only higher class compartments for passengers boarding en route were in the BCK in the core of the train (or the BCK from Scarborough). Photographer unknown, author's collection.

Click on the image for an enlargement

      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Introduction

We gave the Glasgow-Southampton 4 1/2 pages and 4 illustrations which focussed on the 1930s; the complexity of the workings; and Gresley and Collett stock then in place. It is now possible to look at the precursor workings which had been introduced by 1914 to Newcastle and extended in 1922 to Glasgow, which George Dow and everybody thereafter somehow missed. Hence, an important service connecting Scotland and the north-east with Southampton Docks and its ocean-going services has been under-reported. The early formations were based on opposing carriages:

GCR	Parker-style
GWR	Dean clerestory

Carriage Working Books for this period are thin on the ground, none having been found for the GCR and the earliest for the LNER being for 1929, which makes a full write-up difficult. However, analysis of photographs from my collection and Chris Golder's, alas many undated, can reveal quite a lot. It helps to say that the final formation in the '30s was based on two carriages from Glasgow and two from Newcastle, but it developed in detail gradually through GCR and LNER days.

This picture is dated March 1923 and shows GCR class 9Q (LNER B7) No 468 approaching Rothley, the formation inherited from the GCR with Parker-style carriages under JG Robinson, and one update by a Robinson matchboard. The background is that Parker stock was built for the new Extension around 1899 to lengths of around 46'6" (commonly misidentified without the bow ends as "45ft") and when Robinson took over, he followed this house style - but with flat ends and a longer length of 50'. And that's what this photo shows with the leading carriages built 1903-9:

BCK	1st/3rd brake	50' Parker-style	GCR.5H2 BCK(2,2)
CKL	1st/3rd luggage	50' Parker-style	GCR.5K2    CK(2,2)
-------	------------------------	----------------------	--------------------------
RT	3rd restaurant car	50' Parker-style	GCR.5D2
BTK	3rd brake	50' Parker-style	unclear
-------	------------------------	------------------------------	--------------------------
TK?	3rd	Robinson matchboard	unclear

There was a single catering carriage in this formation which in this period was based on 3rd restaurant cars and in this train, wasn't supported by a dining car. A post-1911 Robinson matchboard is on the rear. Destinations were:

- first two carriages: Southampton-Glasgow
- next two carriages: Oxford-Newcastle
- last carriage: possibly also Oxford-Newcastle, later Leicester-Newcastle (FX,SO).

Photo: author's collection.

Click on the image for an enlargement

Another view from the early 1920s with 11D No 1015 [SHE] and the GWR formation on the Up train at Abbey Lane sidings, just north of Leicester Central. The train has been made up to five GWR carriages (painted a dark red colour 1912-22) with a restaurant car in the middle:

BTK, TK, RC, CK, BTK

and what looks like a strengthening GCR matchboard behind the tender, a non-gangwayed 3rd which may only have run between Sheffield-Leicester. Photo: Henry Salmon, author's collection.

Click on the image for an enlargement

GCR Class 8B (LNER C4) No 362 approaches Ashby Magna with the Glasgow-Southampton. The date is not known but the GWR carriages are still carrying the dark red scheme and the loco was allocated to Woodford between 4.11.21 -10.6.25 which points to the early 1920s for this photo. David Jackson and Owen Russell have written that when these locos were sent to WFD they were used on the fish trains to Banbury and while that may be true, the prime reason would have been to take over cross-country expresses from class 11B (LNER D9) 4-4-0s.

The formation with five carriages is similar to the view above. Photo: Henry Salmon, author's collection.

Click on the image for an enlargement

Captured c1925 just south of East Leake Tunnel behind the same ex-GCR C4 as above, recently numbered No 5362, is the GWR formation now reduced to four carriages on which the chocolate and cream livery has been restored but still made up with clerestories, an anachronism not perpetuated by the GCR nor LNER who made a point of putting their best foot forward for a long distance service running onto a rival's metals and providing new carriages. I have had a historian of the GWR tell me that the Great Western "did not think that it was an important service", the consequence being passage of these old clerestories in express service through York, Newcastle, Edinburgh and Glasgow. The same happened with the GWR carriages provided for the "Ports to Ports". This formation was similar to the one described above (BTK, CK / RC, BTK). Photo: H. Gordon Tidey.

Click on the image for an enlargement

This undated view from the mid- or late-1920s was captured a mile or so south of York and shows the Up train behind C1 No 4416 which was at Doncaster from 1924-38. The most significant aspect is that the whole train is destined for Sheffield and further south and has been enlarged considerably. It's as if the LNER was trying to promote Scarborough by providing through carriages connecting with several cities. Only faintly visible in the distance is the GWR core (alternating with LNER), normally 4 carriages carrying headboards but on this occasion, made up to 5-6 carriages. All the carriages at the head of the train look like scheduled strengtheners with, most strikingly, two ex-NER 3rd Opens which on a Saturday (when the Scarborough-Liverpool portion didn't run) would have been for the Scarborough-Leicester portion, and relatively recently built (one is on Gresley bogies).

The CWB for summer 1929 called out several through carriages that didn't run later as well as a cluster of scheduled strengtheners:

"Lav compo brake"		SX	Scarborough-Liverpool	GC Section
"Lav 3rd"		SO, MO	Scarborough-Leicester	NEA or GC Section
"Lavatory 3rd brake"		SO, MO	Scarborough-Leicester	NEA or GC Section
BCK	1st/3rd brake		Scarborough-Southampton	NEA
TK	3rd		Scarborough-Southampton	NEA
-
BTK	3rd brake	FX, SO	Newcastle-Leicester	NEA or GC Section

It's hard to be specific because the summer rosters changed quite a lot. The rosters for 1929 indicate several non-gangwayed types, as can be seen in the photograph. All the carriages from Scarborough were marshalled at York on the head of the train. The last one in this extract was from Newcastle and was placed on the rear of the train to be detached at Leicester. As was not uncommon, first class passengers were rarely provided for in strengtheners, even regular ones, and here the only higher class compartments for passengers boarding en route were in the BCK in the core of the train (or the BCK from Scarborough). Photographer unknown, author's collection.

Click on the image for an enlargement

This view of the Glasgow-Southampton dates from 3rd August 1933 when it was captured heading south out of York towards Chaloners Whin behind Sheffield's C1 No 3287 (and also appears under Fish Traffic because of the fish vans behind the tender; see link below).

This is the LNER formation whose four carriages to the GWR and SR can be seen on the rear. Ahead of it appear to be the carriages from Glasgow and apparently a GWR BCK serving to Harwich, or a GWR strengthener to its service.

TK	3rd
CK	1st/3rd
BCK	1st/3rd brake (GWR)
-----	----------------------------
BCK	1st/3rd brake	Glasgow-Southampton
TO	3rd open (dining)	"
RF	1st restaurant	Newcastle-Oxford
BTK	3rd brake	"

Photo: E.R. Morten.

Click on the image for an enlargement

An undated picture in winter at Low Fell and the point where the four-track was added that ran half way to Durham. To the left with a goods train approaching were the lines to Blaydon and Low Fell sidings. For some reason, the cross-over from the sidings to the Up slow line was never shown on the OS 25" map.

D49 No 253 Oxfordshire is in charge, its allocation to York in the early '30s suggesting a date between the winters of late 1932 and early 1935. The formation of the GWR carriages is based on the roster although the CK is missing and the replacement appears to be an ex-NBR 6w 1st. Photo: author's collection.

BTK	3rd brake	GWR
RC	1st/3rd restaurant	GWR
BTK	3rd brake	GWR
F	1st	ex-NBR 6w

Unidentified LNER carriages are on the rear, probably from Glasgow-York and Glasgow-Harwich, later placed at the head of the train.

Click on the image for an enlargement

A stunning photograph by Henry Casserley from 31st May 1935 on Durham Viaduct shows the head of the Glasgow-Southampton express and its Newcastle-York leg behind Heaton's ex-NER C7 No 2200. Leading is the GWR quartet (which alternated with an LNER one) with the catering added at Newcastle (which only ran as far as Oxford). The roster called for:

BTK	3rd brake	GWR	Newcastle-Oxford
RC	1st/3rd restaurant	GWR	"
CK	1st/3rd	GWR	Glasgow-Southampton
BTK	3rd brake	GWR	"

It looks like on this occasion the trailing CK,BTK were substituted by two BCKs. I can only muse that colour film had yet to appear for the scene shows Durham's terraced houses lit by the morning sun while the viaduct carries a clean apple green loco and equally clean chocolate & cream carriages. Photo: H.C.Casserley.

Click on the image for an enlargement

Fish traffic: is here.